Adam Torres and Steven Weigler discuss protecting intellectual property.
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Show Notes:
Protecting a brand’s intellectual property is important to maximize long term value. In this episode, Adam Torres and Steven Weigler, Founding Attorney of EmergeCounsel, explore best practices for protecting IP and the steps a business should take to maximize value.
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About Steven Weigler
Steven Weigler specializes in the protection of brand, IP, and other business assets. His entrepreneurial perspective building a startup balanced by his role as counsel for a Fortune 50 company has allowed him to develop a unique and empathetic skill set. Steven started EmergeCounsel in 2015 with the mission to provide early to mid-stage businesses sophisticated counsel at a lower price point than large law firms. TotalTM® is EmergeCounsel’s proprietary flat fee trademark prosecution system.
About EmergeCounsel
EmergeCounsel strategizes with a worldwide clientele in the focus areas of protection of intellectual property and business assets. Our TotalTM® and eCommerce services provide trademark guidance, search, appeals of office actions and denials, and trademark monitoring and enforcement at flat, affordable rates. In addition, EmergeCounsel has an extensive network of professionals who provide co-counsel and services in taxation, patents, accounting, marketing, copywriting, financing, and more.
Full Unedited Transcript
Hey, I’d like to welcome you to another episode of Mission Matters. My name is Adam Torres, and if you’d like to apply to be a guest in the show, just head on over to mission matters.com and click on Be Our Guest to Apply. All right, so today I have Steven Weer on the line, and he’s founding attorney over at Emerge.
Counsel Steven, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me, Adam. All right, Steven. So we got, we got a lot to cover today. A lot of, a lot of business owners, entrepreneurs and executives that listen to this show and business law and IP and protecting ip, I mean, these, these are big topics that always love to have individuals on the line to speak on.
So, we’ll get into this of course and more, but before we do, we’ll start this episode the way that we start them all with what we like to call our mission matters minute. So Steve, we at Mission Matters, we amplify stories for entrepreneurs, executives and experts. That’s our mission. Steve, what mission matters to you?
That’s a really interesting question, Adam. So my mission is to be after I exited the the predictive analytics company, my focus became to be an empathetic and strategic thinker and someone that an entrepreneur could really see like, So the strategic benefit in partnering with or, or getting to know to provide a business and IP legal advice to clients.
And so a lot of times my mission and it’s come to fruition is to be like this independent channel of C-level type of relationship with business executives to that and strategically plan their, their businesses, especially on the legal issues. Hmm. So lots of different things that you could have done as a lawyer.
In terms of your, your next step after, you know, exiting the other of the other company, what kept you in the game or still focused on business owners? Like what drew you to that market? Well, I think a lot of attorneys. And I was talking about this today with a client. A lot of attorneys, you know, they go to law school and they find a niche, and I originally started as a, as a prosecutor of all things.
So but they find a niche, they stick with it and they do well a lot of times financially, but they don’t really have the The background of, of having experiences such as being the c e o of their company, building a company. In my case, I had to raise money, so I know that whole thing. And so a lot of attorneys aren’t particularly well-rounded.
And I’m not disparaging the profession, but you know, they act as counsel. So when I had the experience, first I worked for a Fortune 50 company. I was Inside console at, at a major company. And then I next had the opportunity to start my own entrepreneurial endeavor. That was a multimillion dollar company but started from scratch.
I really had these unique Kind of experiences in life. And I was like, what is the best way that I can take those experiences and really be kind of a unique console through those experiences and frankly, it’s competitive advantage to, to my clients. And so I really just took down what my skills are.
And what my unique value proposition is and put it down on a piece of paper and founded the firm about eight years ago. Based on that, the first aspect of that was everyone needs to get, have a brand. And so it could be an executive and you need a personal brand if it’s a company. And that’s usually what you represent is it needs to.
A unique value proposition to its consumers. And so protecting that intellectual property specifically through trademark was the first thing I endeavored in. And then, you know, a lot of my companies have grown and not all but a lot have grown. And so my skills of like m and a exit strategically planning for investment strategically focusing on the right cap table, all those types of things.
Have grown along with my initial focus, which again, was protecting brand. Yeah. I find that super interesting. I don’t, I, I haven’t, I mean, I’ve done a lot, a lot of interviews and I, I don’t find as many individuals focusing on brand when it comes to the law side of things. I mean, I feel like the, the, the basics, and I shouldn’t say basics.
But the, you know, checking the box of getting your, your copyright done or getting some trademark done or whatever, whatever your path is, is usually kind of the forefront. But can you talk a little bit more about like, just that concept of the brand, because I feel like you have a unique insight because you were a business owner and an entrepreneur and all these other things.
Like you just have a whole different view from that. Sure. So I always say that unless you have the cure for cancer, which is at that case, who cares? Like, yeah, your cure for cancer is gonna carry the day, right? Mm-hmm. And who cares what it’s called? Who cares how it interfaces with the customer? Or the end user.
And yeah, because it’s, it’s, it could be the most painful treatment in the world and it still is gonna cure something that’s life debilitating. That’s one case scenario. But for the rest of us, we’re gonna usually have competitors and we want to have strategic advantage. And so strategic advantage is through brand.
Brand just means how the. How the consumers, or, or it could be business to business, business to consumer how they perceive your good or your service. So if you’re selling widgets, that’s always a classic legal one. That the widget could look like any other widget. Same with almost everything. And so how are you gonna make the customer experience better or, or distinguish yourself?
More importantly, with the customer experience, it’s through identifying brand. And so I can give you a classic example, an Oreo like close your. We’ve never met in person, but mm-hmm. Right now we close our eyes and we can see the exact brand of Oreos. We can picture that black cookie with a white frosting and the packages in the store and everything about that brand.
Well, that’s a well established and well protected brand. And so when you start, no one knows what your good or your service is, so you really have to Work hard to get that brand. Well if you, if you are getting it are putting it together and you never took the time to protect it or figure out why am I protecting this and what am I protecting you don’t have a strategy.
Well, it’s, it’s worthless and you’re, you’re gonna get crushed it in the marketplace. So just filing a trademark or, you know, A lot of people are like, well, I could do that myself. Well, yeah, I mean, you could try and fill out the forms yourself, but having a brand strategy, that’s something you need to work with with an attorney.
Mm-hmm. What are some of the and I, I don’t wanna like overgeneralize because I know, but I know you’ve been Yeah. I. You know, you’ve been working, doing this for a long time, so I know that over time maybe certain themes tend to arise. Like where do people tend to go wrong or have you found a lot of people go wrong in that, in those initial stages of really protecting and or establishing their brand?
Sure. So establish it’s establishing their brand and establishing their business. Both are, are crucial. It’s number one is you. It’s just, I, I just call it deliberate. Like you, you’re deliberate. Most successful entrepreneurs are deliberate in, in their game. Like they’re not, you know, they just didn’t put up a lemonade stand and hope that people can, like, they have a plan, they have a business plan, but so it’s like a, what’s your legal strategy?
And so it’s just a little bit of deliberation. Is it, do you think your name’s gonna carry it? Do you have to create a, a logo or a label? What is, how do you define your value proposition to your audience And is some of the instructions Be like copyrighted or how are you gonna protect that? Is it something that you, you really have an invention like, you know, my cure for cancer example?
Or is it, you know, a really unique design? Do we have to get some patent protection upfront? Are you. Is it something that you’re manufacturing yourself, which is unlikely? Or do you have manufacturers and are the manufacturers overseas? And how are you gonna protect the secret elements of, of the trade secret elements of your manufacturing contract?
And so because a lot of times these are, these are all things that entrepreneurs kind of leave to chance or, or kind of it’s kind of the minutia that they don’t. Necessarily have fine focus on where they have fine focus on the rest of their business. So just a simple, easy usually free call with an attorney like me, who can kind of framework, well, what are your, you know, What’s your plan and how are we gonna, either now or over time, depending on your circumstances, how are we gonna protect that?
And the same holds true on the business side with a lot of times entrepreneurs are like, well, the person, they, they partner up and then they partner up and they, the, the partner has a unique value proposition at the beginning of the business, but has no experience in running a business or sales or marketing.
And you know, so they get the. To get to the point where it’s like the commercialization and the, the, the partners know where to be found. And so and there’s no details on really how to, how to get an earn out or something where you can get out of that partnership or corporation or whatever you choose to form.
And so it’s really like strategically thinking about like, all right, well what, what are the stages of the business and. Does your legal framework protect those stages of the business? And, you know, I’m not around to tell you if you’re making the right decision or not, although I might have an opinion.
But, you know, bring up these issues so you don’t really, so your, your legal plan is flexible, just like your business plan. And so these are the things that like, unfortunately for the entrepreneur, ’cause it’s the time amount of money. But these are the things, types of things that are need, should be at least.
The person should be educated or the leaders of the company should be educated at the beginning of the mm-hmm. Enterprise as opposed to you know, Like when they call with a business divorce or someone’s infringing in India or wherever, are there any kind of what, or I should say what, what differences or nuances do you find when it comes to either protecting the brand or the business when it comes to, you know, your traditional maybe brick and mortar to e-comm?
Is there, like, are there some big differences there that you consider? Because I know e-comm is still pretty new for many. Yeah. I mean, brick and mortar kind of goes at a certain stage, right? It, it, it’s, mm-hmm. You could start with one and, and then maybe get to 10, but each one requires a lease or, or something.
So it’s, and it requires a lot of people and scale. When you get to like a virtual business it, it’s almost like more of, there’s less to do to open up. A location or a, a channel, but the, at the same time, it, it becomes harder to forecast, supply and demand and it, it could, you know, and the the margins you’re competing against incredibly tight margin sometimes because you have competitors.
And it’s driven down the price on e-commerce. So, you know, those are. The types of things to think about that you’re basically in a brick and mortar. If I opened a store where I live in Denver you know, maybe someone in Denver would see it, maybe when someone would see it at a website. But when you’re blasting it out to the world you’re exposing your entire business plan your intellectual property, your business assets, everything to the, to a lot of people.
Overseas not overseas competitors, consumers. And so you really have to be armed with kind of a strategy of basic protection that much more early on. Yeah, otherwise you’re not gonna make it in, in that industry. And so that requires keen, you know, sometimes business forecasts and as well as legal forecast.
Again, it’s like, well, where do you think your business is going? What’s your end game? Is this a lifestyle business? Is this a is this a heavy growth business? Are we gonna have to get investors? Is it. You know, are aggregators, looking at your kind of product, all these types of things. And once we know that, and again, it’s like a, could be a 20 minute discussion.
And that’s one thing attorneys have an advantage of. We, you know, have hundreds of calls on various businesses and see so many plays, and also know the exits on those plays. But it could be a 20 minute discussion, but we’re still gonna have an idea of where you, who you are, who your business is, and then we can really, you know, kind of put together a forecast on where we think You know, your legal needs lie.
One thing I want to emphasize, Adam, that’s really important is that attorneys, if you’re interviewing attorneys, ’cause I’m not the only one out there you, you in, in, when I started this practice, I realized that. We have to understand the business and the entrepreneur. So we have to understand the, the team.
I mean, not that we get touchy feely, but, and we’re not psychologists, but really understand who the person we’re dealing with or working with is. And second, what the business is. And once we understand that, we we can really be much more effective in our work. And so at Emerge Console, the first thing I did is said, we’re gonna do this part.
To understand the entrepreneur and their needs and to kind of strategize on our dime. Like we attorneys shouldn’t be charging for like an initial consult or even subsequent consults when it’s like touch base to understand the business and the progress and what’s going on with it because it just makes.
Our work a lot easier and who we, you know, because, and also who we work with and building those relationships it makes everyone’s life a lot easier. And so as opposed to, you know, going out to a lunch or dinner or something like that, we, we spend our kind of Nonproductive time really understanding the client.
And you should really look, look for my advice to, to your audience is we’re not the only ones that do that, but you, you absolutely should find an attorney that’s willing to work. Go a little bit deeper on your understanding your plans. Hmm. So, so speaking of that Steve, well first off, it’s been great having you on the show and to get your insight and to learn a little bit more about what it takes to, to protect and develop a brand That’s been great having you on.
But if somebody wants to follow up, I know we just. Barely touched the subject only so much you can, you know, fit in a 2020 some minute podcast interview. But somebody wants to follow up and, you know, continue the conversation with you or your team. What’s the best way for them to do that? Sure. So my email is S W E I G L E R, weyler at emerge, E M E r G E C O U N S E l, not c e s e com.
And. Or www e merge console.com. Anyone can book a free initial console to talk about your business. And if you’re looking at brand, we even do free what’s called knockout searches, which a lot of firms charge a lot for. It just email me or call me the numbers on my dot com and we, we can get that set up.
And that’s really how to contact me. Glad to talk to anyone about their businesses and their business needs and just get to know them. That’s awesome. Well, again, Steve, appreciate you coming on the show today and to, to the audience as always, thank you for tuning in. I hope you got a lot of value out of this.
Hope you learned a lot. And if you did, don’t forget, hit that subscribe button. We have many more mission-based individuals coming up on the line, and we don’t want you to miss a thing. Thanks again for coming on today, Steve. A pleasure. Adam.