Adam Torres and Rosemary Bova discuss Rosemary’s new book.
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Show Notes:
New book alert! In this episode, Adam Torres interviewed Rosemary A. Bova, President of Bova Enterprises, Inc. (BE). Explore Rosemary’s new book, Mission Matters: World’s Leading Entrepreneurs Reveal Their Top Tips To Success (Business Leaders Vol. 8), where she writes about “The Power Of Four: Four Elements To Reclaim Your Work Life.”
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About Rosemary A. Bova
As a management consultant, business consultant and executive coach, Rosemary uses a science-based approach to organizational development called Requisite Organization (RO).
By studying RO, Rosemary learned that the best way to revitalize an underperforming company is to improve its internal structure rather than highlighting the flaws of underperforming, even difficult employees. Fixing the heart of a problem puts every member in a position to succeed.
Rosemary holds a bachelor’s degree in labor economics, a master’s from Columbia University, and has worked with some of the biggest names in Fortune 100 business spanning financial services, CPG, and healthcare.
About Bova Enterprises, Inc.
At BEI, they offer management consulting and leadership development / professional coaching as never seen before. Their approach is maverick and unexpected, and their results speak for themselves.
BUSINESS CONSULTING / MANAGEMENT CONSULTING: Just as individuals have unique fingerprints, so do corporations. Each company they work with has different needs and tolerances. What they do is analyze the organizational spine, key influencers, and hierarchical roles – and uncover the root causes of paralysis, dysfunction, and decreased productivity. Then, and only then, do they craft solutions that allow internal processes to freely flow.
Full Unedited Transcript
Hey, I’d like to welcome you to another episode of Mission Matters. My name is Adam Torres, and if you’d like to apply to be a guest in the show, just head on over to mission matters.com and click on BR Guest to apply. All right, so today is Ace. Special episode we’re bringing back Rosemary Bova. I’m so excited and thrilled to announce that our book is finally live. We’ve been working at it for a long time. We’ll be talking about the book, of course. We’ll also get into Bova Enterprises as well, which is Rosemary’s business. But before we do that, we’ll start this episode the way that we start them all. And I just gotta say, Hey Rosemary, welcome back to the. Well, thank you. Thank you. I’m really excited to be here today, Adam. Yeah, I’m excited as well. And I know you know the drill. We’re gonna start with that Mission Matters minute. So, Rosemary, we at Mission Matters. We amplify stories for entrepreneurs, executives, and experts. That’s our mission. Rosemary, what mission matters to you? I think the mission that matters most to me is transforming people’s experience in the work. We spend so much time at work and we’re all goal directed. And that experience has to be positive. People have to feel valued, appreciated, and paid, you know, an appropriate R wage. But I, I get very concerned that our, our companies are not experiencing engaged workforces. So I want our people, I want workers to feel engaged and excited about what they do. Hmm. So great to have you back. And I love bringing mission-based individuals on the line to share their mission, why they do what they do, their purpose, and really so we can all learn and grow together. So first off, just to kind of get us swarmed up here, I don’t wanna assume that all of our new listeners and viewers maybe caught some of the previous work we’ve done with each other. So maybe start off a little bit more about your background and really how you got in business. I come from a back, actually, I can go really far back. I come from a working class background. My father had a small business and so small business was always in our family dinnertime conversation. And I you know, I grew up when when things were roles were not all that available for. So it, it, you had to navigate if you didn’t wanna just go to college and get married and have children, but you wanted a career, you really had to navigate and, and find your way. I just heard this morning, somebody mentioned that in the seventies, women couldn’t even have their own bank. Wow. It’s really, you know, without their husband or their father signing for them. I mean, it’s really kind of, that’s not that long ago either. When you think about, it’s not long ago in the scheme of things, in, in the, in the thousands of years that the, the world has been functioning. I mean, it’s like God in the seventies, so Wow. That being said you know, I, I must have changed my, my d my area of studies in college four or five times. Mm-hmm. And when I got out, I went, I was, I was a labor economics major and I went to down to Wall Street to try to get jobs. And these people looked at me as if I was crazy. So, I mean, you know, and that kind of pivoted me into what was social, Yeah. And I went from social work into corporate work into being an executive director of a small agency. Mm-hmm. Providing services to school systems. But then I really wanted, I wanted to, the big picture, you know, I really was looking for what is what’s available in the corporate world. And it was hard to go from not-for-profit into corporate work because people in corporate work. Did value not-for-profit work at that time. It’s very different now. Yeah, it’s really very different. The world has changed so dramatically. And so I went into corporate work and then I decided, you know what? I need to be on my own. I, I too principled and perhaps opinionated in a, in a certain way. I have, I have my beliefs and, and my integrity is very important to me. So I decided to start my own business and here we. So I’ve had ups and downs and all arounds and it’s, it’s been a great journey, I have to say. It’s been a wonderful. Yeah, it’s and I know we, as we’ve gotten to know each other I know where your heart really is and especially helping business owners. And when I think about what you’re doing at BE enterprises really, and like how you’re looking to make a difference we’ll circle back to that. But and, and I do wanna go further into your business, but I, I wanna, I wanna jump around a bit and I wanna dive into this book and into the content because. It’s excited. We’ve been working on it for a long time. It’s finally out, it’s finally live. So your, your contribution to the book the power of Four, four Elements to reclaim your work life. What was the inspiration for this topic? I think the inspiration was really had a lot to do with my weaving together, my own experience. In the business community, in the world of work. You know, I started out and everything was focused on behavior and then I was introduced to a person who became my mentor, Dr. Elliot Jacks, and his emphasis was that structure affects behavior. And so I kind of let go of everything I knew. And, and do dove into this whole area of what was called requisite organization. I’ve stepped away from that and then realizing now that it’s really not it’s, it’s a both end. It’s not an either or. It’s a both end. And I think this power of four is my way. Creating a new tapestry, a a new way of thinking that, and, and I don’t like the word empower. Mm-hmm. It’s just, I don’t like that word, but I haven’t found a new word yet. So I, it people need to be re-energized in, in in the business community. And I think these four elements, Will be different for every person. So what your four elements will be or the, the degree that you emphasize, each element will be different than mine would, would be different than, you know, another person’s. Yeah. And so I’ll, I’ll highlight the four elements just so everybody listening. Watching this has, has, has kind of the bird’s eye view. But just to let everybody know we’re gonna go into, you know, one or two. We’ll have some time on this, but we’re not gonna get ’em all you today because why? Because, hey, I still want you to buy a copy of the book. I’m a publisher, right? Like we sell books around here too. We give a lot of free content out too, but definitely want you to pick up a copy of this. But the four elements are element one, differentiating management and self-management. Element two, understanding task management. Element three, self. Element four, self-care. So one that stuck out to me in the book. Well, well all of ’em did, but I wanted to kind of elaborate and highlight on one cause I just want, I want you to go further with it. Element three, self-knowledge. I feel like this topic does not get enough media attention. So tell us more about, about your concept of it. Well, I think, I think it’s essential. That everybody knows who they are mm-hmm. When they go to work. And that’s the, I that’s the obvious. But when it, when you, when I read it, it hit me. I’m like, huh, go, go ahead. Continue. So, so what the, the gift that the pandemic gave us mm-hmm. Because you, you know, you could look at the pandemic and think of all the negativity and the horror and the, the bad things that happened, and there are a lot of that, but, but you have to look at the positivity of what did it. What did it encourage in us? And I think it, it enabled people to, to understand that they were on like a a, a treadmill on a treadmill. And they, they, they were, they were just running but didn’t know where they were going. But running for the sake of running, not for the sake of realizing a goal or an aspiration. Mm-hmm. And so I think the, there was a real rude awakening for a lot of people to recognize that what they were doing was not feeding their soul. Hmm. What, what they were doing was, I mean, work, everybody’s work doesn’t have to really feed, feed their soul fully. But at least if you know what you’re doing and you have another alternative, like say some volunteer work that you want to do that really feeds you soul, then you know what you’re doing. Yeah. And what, what happens is that so many people are so unconscious. Mm-hmm. They’re just, they’re just. Not conscious of who they are and what’s important to them, and they find that out too late. Mm-hmm. You know, so, you know, I mean, it, it affects not knowing who you are affects your entirety. It affects not only your work life, but it affects your personal life. Mm-hmm. You know, people are Divorced. They don’t have relationships. They don’t have, I mean, their children are getting in trouble. Mm-hmm. It’s so, I, I think it’s very, very important to, to know yourself and there are a lot of different ways to know yourself. There’s a lot that’s out there, some of which is better than others. Mm-hmm. But, you know, I. I tend to believe that it, it’s, it’s really important to Like what I use, I use the disk instrument as, as a vehicle to get to know my clients at the beginning. But once my clients know me, they recognize there’s a, they recognize my authenticity. Mm-hmm. And there’s a trust built. It’s kind of like we have built a trust together. Mm-hmm. And when people trust you, they will become vulnerable to you. You know, they will, they will ask for, Rather than just mouthing all the words. Mm-hmm. And, and, and, and really not meaning anything about it. Hmm. So so self-knowledge becomes very, very important, and it’s also important to know how your behavior affects another person. And most people are not sharing that. And, and I know that there’s no, you know, there’s no one size fits all, right? There’s gonna be different individuals, different backgrounds, different, you know, histories. I mean, infinite variations, right? We’re humans. So no, no one size fits all there. Absolutely. And this is one of the thing, and I, I definitely do struggle at times with self-knowledge and kind of that reassessment and just rethinking about I don’t know who said it. Stephen Covey or somebody saying, is your ladder on the right wall that you’re climbing? Right. Or whatever you’re trying to do. Like, I struggle with that to this day. And it’s one of those things where I always reset and when I’m working with our team internally and otherwise, like, hey, are, are we having you do the right things that make you feel fulfilled and that you want to do? So these are conversations we try to have pretty, pretty consistently. Yes. So I guess my question to you would be, is there any. Tips along the way that you’ve learned about how to, like, if you’re, if you’re struggling with that, to maybe get a little bit further on your path to learning yourself and through self-knowledge, whether it’s something that you’ve experienced or something that you’ve, you know, worked with your clients on. Well other than using an instrument, cuz instruments can help you to identify a specific aspect of self-knowledge. Mm-hmm. But, but if we step away from using an instrument, you, you can really think about what’s important to you. Mm-hmm. You know, I, I’m a believer in writing lists. Yeah. So you can, you can, you know, have like a task for yourself for the. Mm-hmm. And you could, you could start off by just saying like, what’s important to, for me today, what’s, what’s important in my life today? Hmm. And, and just it’s, it’s helpful to actually sit quietly and write. That down so you, you can actually have a timer. You know those little egg timers? Yeah. Three minutes. You’d be surprised how long three minutes is. It’s so long. You know, it’s, it’s a long time. So if you sit down quietly with this, with something like an egg timer. And you write whatever comes to your mind, you’d be surprised at the end of the three minutes what might have come out. Because oftentimes that’s a way of tuning into the self-conscious, particularly if you write everything that comes to your mind. Yeah. You know, I have to go to the dry cleaner, for example. You know, you, you’re writing down very quickly that gives you information about you. Mm-hmm. And if you do, Like five days in a row, and then on Saturday morning, look at all these pieces of paper that you’ve written on. You’re gonna get a little bit more information because you’re, you’re actually tuning into your self-conscious. Mm-hmm. And it’s telling you a little bit about who you are and maybe what’s important. Now, the thing with self-knowledge is that sometimes when you, sometimes when you learn more about yourself, you realize you might be in the wrong. Hmm. You know, and so that, I think there, there are a lot of people avoid self-knowledge because they’re afraid that they, that they been there, done that. I’ll pick on myself, been there, done that. I’m human. So have I, I mean, it’s like uhoh. Yeah. But if you know that you can manage that process, You can say, well wait a minute. Okay, let me, is there some way that I can bring whatever it is into my current work or you know, I’m a believer that no one should be in a job. Mm-hmm. That they really don’t. Like, do you know what I mean? It’s like, I remember having a group a number of years ago, and there was a guy in the group there must have been about six or seven people, and they were, were talking about careers. And this guy said, well, you know, I always dreamed of being a policeman. Hmm. And he was young. I mean, he was in his twenties. And I said, why aren’t you? He said, well, you know, my family didn’t want me to do this. You know, and he had all these reasons. Yeah. And I said, You’re in an insurance company. There’s some, there’s, you really should think about this a bit more. Mm-hmm. We fast forward a couple of months, he became a policeman. Wow. I never, you know, and I remember his boss coming over to me. I said, why did you, you know, weed him out of the company? I said, why would you want somebody here? Yeah. Who didn’t wanna be here? Mm. You know, it doesn’t, I mean, I’m a believer that people should do, do that, which they can be totally engaged in, so, I, I think it’s, it’s it’s it’s great and it’s fun to hear those type of stories for me because like, you know, as I said, we, we all wanna be connected on some level. So to hear that, like if there’s, there’s other people that are watching this or are listening to this, and they’re in that situation, or they’ve been in it, like, that’s part of our, you know, our connection. That shared experience. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. So I wanna, I wanna let, let’s pull out a another point here as well from, from specifically from the book. Okay. So understanding task management. So a lot of a lot of business owners, a lot of entrepreneurs, a lot of executives that watch this. And, you know, I, I feel like it’s something that many of us struggle with. I’ll pick up myself again there. Task management’s not always the easiest. You know, we all have so many things we wanna get done and we want, you know, Inspirations and ideas, but only so much time to get ’em done, right? Mm-hmm. So tell us a little bit more about your views on this side. So what I’ve done in the book is is tweak a a formula that Dr. Jacks had had written, and it’s, you know, the te the completion time of a task is based on the the quality and quantity. Of, of, of, of, of the task, of, of what’s gotta be done to complete the task and the time and the resources. Mm-hmm. So, you know oftentimes we as managers know that task, so well, that we kind of assume that the person that we are assigning the task. Is gonna just get it really quickly and, and generally that’s not gonna happen. So oftentimes and, and this has to do with structural work, but oftentimes managers are, you know, in in two layers above, they’re they’re workers. Mm-hmm. And so they’re talking a different, And I, what I have noticed is that most workers do not ask their their they have either they’re inhibited mm-hmm. About asking for more clarity as to what is exp is expected of them. Mm-hmm. So putting this formula in the. Is my attempt to, to create less less space Yeah. Between the manager and the employee, so that if the manager says you know, Adam, I’d like you to do X, Y, Z and you’ll, you’ll have, you know two months to do this. Yeah. And the employee says, Well, what is, what specifically is X, Y, Z? How do I have, do I have to come back to you every time I do a piece of this? Mm-hmm. And tell you how I’m doing it? And then you tell me I can go ahead and do the next segment. Mm-hmm. Or you giving me two months to just. The job and then I’ll come back to you in two months time. And if I’ve done it wrong, my head will be on the chopping block, basically. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? So you want to create, you really wanna create an opportunity for dialogue between the worker and the manager here. Mm-hmm. And you know, if there’s a supervisor in between. Cuz supervisors can sometimes assign tasks, but they don’t really have they’re really more helpers to managers. Mm-hmm. They’re not really managing people. They’re, they’re kind of supporters of the manager. So you need to then get, get the either the supervisor or you, yourself and the supervisor to talk to the manager to get the clarity. Hmm. So it becomes. It’s, it’s really essential for people to understand what is expected of them. And what I have found is that most employees really want that specificity. Mm-hmm. They really want, they, they, they wanna know what, what you really are expecting of me. Hmm. And if, if they don’t feel that they can speak to the manager, if they don’t feel that, Some kind of connection. They’re go, they’re, they’re really not going to, they, they’re gonna be afraid to give it their all. And my experience I’ve had this experience is that the manager subordinate experience, relationship, can be one of the most satisfied, satisfying relationships you can have in, in your, in your life experience. Mm-hmm. It’s wonderful when the manager is really working with you to help develop you. Hmm. And, and you are doing, you know, you are actually even helping the manager to grow in, in your own way. Mm-hmm. So it becomes a very, and I don’t think we have many of those relationships Yeah. In business. Yeah, I think I think it’s changed. I, I see, I see exactly you’re saying how those relationships work. And to me, I think some of the some of this, and not, not picking on the current economy by the way, and the way that it’s but when we think about a lot of the a lot of, let’s just say the old concepts or the old previous concepts of maybe being at a, a job for 30 years and retiring. And, you know, I feel like many people have maybe used that as an excuse in the past. Mm-hmm. But in, in. Things. I’ve seen organizations that work with our, our organization. I mean, we work, we have quite a bit of freelance writers. They’re not, you know, day-to-day employees, but Right. We have freelance writers we’ve been working with since 2019. Yes. The, the designer of our book, she’s been with us since the very first book. Some of the editors, some other people, so we have amazing. Long-term relationships with individuals that I find very gratifying. I, I believe they do as well. Why they, why they stick around. Right. Of course. But so I think that old paradigm, like we can have it in today’s, like in today’s marketplace, like to me, there’s no excuses. Like if a leader, if a manager, if whatever title we wanna give them, right? If they, you know, wanna step up to the challenge. Like there’s room for growth and there’s always room for growth is what I think. Oh, well, I always think there’s room for growth, but I. The, the, I think the, the new paradigm is that companies are using independent contributors mm-hmm. To replace employees. Hmm. And I think that, I think that will work. I mean, I think it works in certain businesses. Yeah. You know, I think. This gets into kind of more heady stuff, but, but I think when, when you have when you ha when you have businesses that have prevented people from, for example, taking off for maternity or paternity leave. Mm-hmm. I mean, that affects the whole culture, not the business culture, the whole, the, the, the company, the, the the Of course. Of course. Mm-hmm. Do you know what I mean? So I think that, you know, when people, there’s been so much fear, and, and a lot of it is, I don’t, I don’t think is valid. I mean, I, for some reason people are afraid to speak up. I don’t know. I never had that problem even when I was in corporate America. Yeah. I, I had, I had a vice president, a senior vice president who would sign people up for my programs and then pull them out at the last minute. Hmm. And I went into him one day and I, I said to him, you know his name was Tom Gorman. I’ll never forget this. And I said, you know, can we speak? And he said, of course, you know, of course, Rosemary. I said, can we close the door? He said, okay. And I said, you know, listen, you know, I’m a professional and I, I respect your work. He was in sales. I said, I, I would hope that you respect my. I said, but when you sign people up and then pull them out Yeah. Of the class, it affects the whole dynamics of the class. I mean, it, it, it sentenced the wrong tone. Hmm. And he st. Sat there and listened to me and he said, it won’t happen again. Hmm. And sure enough, it never did happen again. And then I wanna say months later, he sent his wife to, For career counseling. Wow. And it was so interesting, but it was like he, he understood, but nobody speaks to people. Mm-hmm. Because people, I wasn’t afraid to speak to people, but I, you know, in my corporate experience, I spoke to a lot of senior executives. Mm-hmm. And very candidly respectfully. I mean, it’s like you don’t yell and scream. I mean, you, you, you know, you, you’re acting respectfully, but yeah, it’s, it’s funny because I don’t think that’s happening in today’s world very much. So speaking of speaking up, Rosemary, you know, I gotta bring this up a little and just for everybody watching this, like where we’re still definitely early stages production and we definitely haven’t, like, we’re very preliminary, but I believe that you may be working on some more content with us and you may be doing a whole lot more speaking. Do, do you care to comment on that at all today? Just a little bit. Yeah, I, I’m, I’m very, very excited to to step into this new role of, you know, being a, a podcaster. I guess, I mean, it’s yes you are. And I’m excited too. I know you’re, I know it’s still very new, but I, I’m thrilled. So for for context, as we’ve worked with Rosemary and we’ve gone through and, and evaluated her writing her business just like her, her beliefs and just. The and this is the content she’s putting out, like we are thrilled to offer an invitation to be on our, our podcast network, which she graciously accepted. Mm-hmm. And now we’re in the, in the production stages of getting her show launched. But you’ll be able to hopefully hear Rosemary’s show very, very. Soon. Again, very early in production, but her show should be coming out very, very soon, hopefully on the podcast Network, and that’ll be everywhere. So Apple, Spotify, I mean, 30 plus channels, our website, mission matters.com. I had to just, I had to make it real. It’s real when you tell the world, right, Rosemary? It’s real. When you tell the world, and I, I can’t tell you. I mean, I am so excited about this. Mm-hmm. You know, and. Yeah, because I’ve been telling a lot of people myself and you know, I have no idea what I’m doing, but I’m doing this all based on on trust. Mm-hmm. You know, I love the mission matters. We amplify stories. Mm-hmm. And I say to myself, you know, Rosemary, you really have a lot to say and. And I, you know, actually from interviewing people throughout my career when I, you know, am consulting, I, you know, I think I’m a, a pretty good interviewer and people have always said to me, you know, I, I didn’t expect to say that. I don’t know why I said that to you, but, and I think it has to do with the authenticity. The authenticity, authenticity and transparency comes through, and I think that’s why you and I connect, why I’ve said so much. You know, in our conversations, Adam. So I’m excited. I’m really thrilled. So I, I’m thrilled as well. And we won’t, we won’t leave everybody else hanging on that. We’ll cut that piece for now there. But look out very soon. And if you’re on Rosemary’s newsletter like I am and a fan of you’ll, you’ll get, you’ll get that announcement too, and we’ll be announcing and doing a bunch. Promo around it as well. Mm-hmm. So you’re, you’re definitely gonna hear it. Oh. Hear about this. Yeah. So I wanna spend, you know, some of the minutes we have left here, and I want you to maybe talk a little bit about, about B Enterprises and really how you’re working with with businesses. Okay. So B is F Bova Enterprises. Mm-hmm. And you know, I, we’ve evolved over the years and what my real specialty. Is really has to do with building organizations that have structural integrity. Hmm. And you can, you can you can work very differently. You can, you can, you, there are ways to enter into a a work system. And these are for Wal, these are for large scale work systems. Mm-hmm. I’m not talking about small little businesses, I’m talking about larger corporations. And you can work through both, like on an individual level, like working with a senior vice president or a, you know, an an executive or you can work grammatically by going in and designing a a strategic program. For say for their high potential people. So, I mean and, and there are different ways that you can do this. And the, the goal has always been to ensure that the, the company, the, the senior team of the company knows what’s really going on Hmm. In the rank and file, because oftentimes they’re in. They’re, you know, in the upper echelons of the offices looking out over the rivers. Mm-hmm. And, and the people that are in the trenches are not really communicating. I mean, they may communicate with their managers, but their managers may not be communicating upwards. So, you know, some of the work that I do you know, includes something like three tier team building that ensures that in my language, you have the manager once removed, you have a manager, and then you have the employee that there’s a cascading that goes down, but it also goes up as well. So it’s not that it’s one directional. It’s, it’s, it’s, again, both end. So it, you know, and it you ideally that would come down from the top and be cascading down in threes to the lowest level in the organization. Mm-hmm. And also it would, it would kind of, I don’t, it’s not cascading. Cause cascading is, is directional, but you’d have to go up to allow for the. The information to get from the bottom to the top. Hmm. So, you know, we do a lot, we do one-on-one coaching but we do the programmatic work and and we also do we would go into a company and interview and find out where there are what I call invisible fractures. Mm-hmm. In the organizational s. So oftentimes, you know, you’ll hear companies say, oh they’re going to I just wrote a actually a, a, a newsletter on this a few months ago. That, you know, people were, were they’re gonna let go of 10,000 employees, or they’re gonna let go of, you know, 20% of their employees. And sometimes by doing that, or just saying that and then acting upon it, they remove a whole. Of important work without knowing it. Yeah. And so you then, you then you then have people that are, you know, at the higher levels that are being pulled down and not necessarily doing the strategic work. Or the, or the organizational work across the multifaceted departments that might, a company might have. Mm-hmm. So we do that analysis. We do, we go in and, and we analyze and show them where there is what I call these fractures. Mm-hmm. And, and then show them also how they can heal. You know how they can, how they can correct that. What also shows up in these analyses though, and a lot of companies don’t, don’t, when, when, you know, if you do a, a, a pilot, they get upset with this kind of information cuz it shows where the disparity is between salaries. Mm-hmm. You know you know, org charts today are really just showing salaries. Hmm. They’re not really showing the workflow how work gets done. And so we talk a lot about managerial authority and accountabilities and it’s, I love it. I mean, I’m passionate about it, so it’s you can tell. Oh yeah, no, I, I could telling and I’ve been around you long enough to know your passion for yourself, for the, what you’re doing with your clients and really how you’re helping them. Mm-hmm. And that being said, I mean, if somebody’s watching this or listening to this, first off, it’s been great having you on the show, but how do people connect? How do they follow up and how do they get more information? So you can call me at, I have an office line, an old fashioned office line 2 1 2 6 8 5 0 8 7 0. My website is bova enterprises.com. I’m on LinkedIn as I think it’s Rosemary Bova. Hmm. And you know, you could text me at 9 1 7 6 5 3 7 9 4 1. I mean, and and I guess shortly you can get to me through Mission Matters. I would. Oh yeah, so we’ll, we’ll have you, we’ll have you all over our website real soon, once that once that show gets launched. So I’m excited about this. Yeah. And well, I, I just have to say and we’ll, we’ll put all these links in the show notes, by the way, to your website, all that other good stuff so that our audience can just click on the links and head right on over. And, Speaking of the audience, if this is your first time with Mission Matters or engaging in an episode or watching the sh watching the show, we’re all about bringing on business owners, entrepreneurs and executives and experts, and having them share their mission, the reason behind their mission, really what gets them excited in the morning, get ’em, you know, fired up to get out of bed and to make a difference in the marketplace. If that’s the type of content that sounds interesting or fun or exciting to you, we welcome you hit that subscribe button because we have many more mission-based individuals coming up on the line, and now we don’t want you to miss a thing there. And Rosemary, I I just wanna say really, it’s been a pleasure working on this book with you. I can’t wait to this next chapter where we get it into the, into the podcast side of the content you’re gonna put out. And just thrilled to continue working with you. So thank you again for coming back on the. It’s my pleasure. Thank you, Adam.