Adam Torres and Camille Bell discuss Pound Cake.
Subscribe: iTunes / Spotify
Apply to be a guest on our podcast here
Show Notes:
Pound Cake is an award-winning pro-Black, pro-fat, and pro-queer cosmetics company creating products for people of various skin and lip tones. In this episode, Adam Torres and Camille Bell, Co-founder & CEO at Pound Cake, explore the Pound Cake story and Camille’s plan to scale.
About Pound Cake
For four years, the team poured their hearts and souls into this monumental launch. Pound Cake wasn’t just another product; it was a response to an industry that marginalized voices like theirs, excluding them from both beauty standards and product development.
Through blood, sweat, and tears, they crafted something revolutionary: five liquid lipsticks designed specifically for five distinct skin and lip tones. It was a labor of love born from the ashes of a broken standard, a testament to resilience and determination.
After over 120 revisions, more than 40 trials, securing a coveted spot in Glossier’s exclusive Black-Owned Business Cohort, and earning an Allure Best of Beauty Award, the long-anticipated line of Cake Batters has finally made its debut. These créme-matte liquid lipsticks boast extreme opacity and vibrancy. Not only are they vegan, clean, and cruelty-free, but they are also tailored for diverse skin and lip tones, spanning from deep brown to pink and everything in between.
A red lip is more than just a cosmetic choice; it embodies boldness, empowerment, desire, and passion. It pulsates with life, symbolizing energy and vitality. When adorned with a red lip, a person becomes an undeniable force, exuding confidence and allure.
Full Unedited Transcript
Hey, I’d like to welcome you to another episode of Mission Matters. My name is Adam Torres, and if you’d like to apply to be a guest in the show, just head on over to missionmatters. com and click on be our guest to apply. All right. So today my guest is Camille Bell. She’s co founder and CEO over at Poundcake.
Camille, welcome to the show. Thank you so much. I’m happy to be here. All right, Camille. So great to have you here and I’m excited to get into pound cake today and to get this kicked off, we’ll start this episode the way that we start them all with what we like to call our mission matters minute.
So Camille at mission matters, our aim and our goal is really to amplify stories for other entrepreneurs, other founders. Really other people out there that are, that have a mission that we feel needs to be heard. And I know you have a very special mission over at Poundcake. So maybe start off by telling us what mission matters to you.
Like tell us the mission of Poundcake. Yes. The mission for Poundcake is to simply offer color cosmetics in a way that’s never been done before, a way that’s more personal to every, every person. User and customer currently, you know, aside from our company a lot of color cosmetic companies will create.
One shade of a product and they’ll expect it to look the same on all of us. And oftentimes it leaves darker skin folks feeling left out within the beauty industry, you know, going to get a product and either not showing up at all because the color was only made to show up on lighter skin.
It’s not pigmented enough or the offering. Is limited. And so it leaves folks with brown to darker skin, having to buy multiple products, mixing it together to get the shade that was originally promised. So we’re on a mission to eliminate that and just offer. Better quality color cosmetics.
Thank you. Thank you for sharing that mission, Camille. And this is, this is super interesting to me. And as we get further here, like, were you always an entrepreneur or was this one of your first ventures? Like, tell us a little bit more about when Camille became an entrepreneur, because this is amazing.
Yeah, that’s kind of funny you ask that which I don’t really get asked a lot that particular question. I would say yes I’ve always been an entrepreneur. I think the first time I was I guess I had my entrepreneurial run was when I was, I think, 11 years old, I used to make these string bracelets.
That’s amazing. So hold on. So I was, the baseball card or the comic book guy. There was the candy guy. And then you would have been the girl with the bracelets. That’s amazing. So we would, we would have all been hanging out at lunch. Go ahead. Yeah. I literally would like buy string, different colors, string or thread.
And I sit there in my room. And making these bracelets, like I would do like an hour a day and just be really diligent and making different cool designs and then I would go around and I have this clear box. Wow, hold on, wait, I want to stop for one second there. So you were, you used that word diligent. So you were, other people were out playing, doing whatever and you’re like, no, I got to make my bracelet.
Yes. Like what, what do you think made you do that? Like what gave you that drive that young? Because me , I was playing around with cards, I didn’t have to make anything, so I’m not gonna claim I was ever being diligent. Go ahead. I think at this particular moment, I just wanted more money.
I didn’t have like the best childhood. And at a very early age, I had to pay for a lot of stuff. And so I was just always conscious of like, I hate to say, but like at 11, like I just had this like anxiety of never having enough money, which is not what an 11 year old should be thinking.
And so I was just like, okay, what are ways that I can make money? And so this was one of the, this was one of the ways. And so, and so, yeah, I would sit in my room and I would do these bracelets. And then. I bought this like really nice plastic clear holder to put each of the different design bracelets.
And then I would go around our cul de sac in the nearby neighborhood, I’d knock on people’s doors and just like, hi, do you want to buy a bracelet? This one’s 50 cents. This one’s a dollar. And that’s amazing. I would like, and people would buy them. I made 20 and I was like, wow, I’m rich. Yeah, you were.
Yeah. No taxes. Come on. You were good. No good. Yeah. So yeah, that was like my first like entrepreneurial. And then so this was my junior year. No, this was my, the summer of my sophomore year. In college, I was always into fashion and I thought it’d be really cool to create a hub for student designers as well as like small upcoming designers that have a platform to sell their clothing.
And it just wasn’t thought through. And I, it was called Monarchy and I I just couldn’t afford to like keep it afloat. Like my, I think the square space was like 24, which was like, it was a lot to me in college. And I just, I just couldn’t afford to pay that each month to keep this site up. But before I like stopped doing it, you know, I, I was just, I had to be really resourceful.
And so like, I remember going to the Tyler school of art and I found an art student who made a really cool logo for me. And then I created the website through Squarespace and then I had some of my friends like model and I did some designs myself. I could put it on the site. I would go to like Philly fashion week.
To meet other designers. And yeah, eventually just fizzled out, but that was like my, my second, I guess, business venture when I was in school. So the, and then when it came to pound cake, it actually wasn’t a sense of like it’s interesting. It wasn’t like, Oh, I’m doing this to make money. I was just really into makeup by this point, my senior year.
And I was just getting, I was just feeling. Kind of defeated and just upset that I would go in to a, let’s say Sephora and I’d pick up a blush and it wouldn’t show up on me. And then I go again and like the hottest new trend and it was like getting this lipstick and. It would look different on me than what was being advertised and it just kept happening and it made me feel really bad and I started talking to my friends a lot about this And then finally one of my friends was like, why don’t you just do something about it?
Like you keep like It’s upsetting. Do you remember which friend that was? Yeah, it was my friend Katora Okay, you should do something about it Yeah. And I was like, okay, I will. And so with this venture, I think I was more strategic. And I was just like, okay you know, I tapped into my resources at Temple university is where I graduated from.
And so I’ve literally just graduated and I so I was applying for jobs, but on the side, you know, I found out that Temple had entrepreneurial hub where students, faculty, and alumni could go in and they would help you bring your business idea to fruition. And so I was advised to go there. I did.
I met the director and she was like, just like hit the ground running was like, you need a, you need to think of a name. You need a website, you need business cards, you know, we got to file for trademark. Like it was. It was more they were helping me to be, I guess, more legitimate. Whereas, like, with Monarchy, like, I didn’t, I had the website, but I never filed, like, a trademark.
And, and did all that, the legal stuff to, to start your business. But with Pound Cake, I did, and it was thanks to You know where I graduated from because they had the resources to help me. And so that was a long winded answer, but those were, my entrepreneurial background. No, I don’t, I don’t think it’s long winded.
, I think it’s the story and that’s what we want. We want the real. And how did you know obviously other than Katara having some, some pulling your life and firing you up to say, you go do it. Like how did you know that this was going to be the one, like the next venture, something that you’d be.
I, and the reason I asked this question, by the way, to preface is that as entrepreneurs and as. Individuals with ideas out there, you know, they, they come and go, like, I swear every other day, I want to start another business. Then I’m like, wait a minute, Adam, you have all these people, like, wait, stop. Like, but I, you know, so to stay focused could be a challenge, but how did you know that this was going to be the one that something that was going to take up a significant portion of your life and effort and, you know, energy?
I think this one hit home to me. I’ve always been. Interested and in love with makeup. I wasn’t allowed to wear makeup in high school. And so when I got to college, like I literally ran to the nearest store and bought as much makeup as I could and Yeah, that’s amazing.
Yeah, I I’ve always loved makeup always and so in that store like what’s going on here? No and yeah, I think Koi and Isis was like it felt personal like it really hurt my feelings that I couldn’t wear What I wanted Other folks were wearing who were lighter than me. I think it was personal.
Like it actually hurt my feelings and I didn’t want anyone else to feel like this. So I think that’s probably the difference. And yeah, I think, yeah, because makeup has always been like a passion of mine. Like fashion definitely was when I got to college I was exploring, but I’ve always loved makeup, like since I was in middle school.
and so I think, I think that was the difference and just not wanting people to feel how I was feeling, like feeling left out. And so I guess that’s the difference between. Like, how much further I’ve gone with pound cake than monarchy. Yeah. Yeah. So talks to me a little bit about like your, your process and your methodology and creating the tones, the and really just the product in general.
So now you have this problem or this challenge because you can’t find it yourself. And this is, I mean, this applies to many different industries. I had, I interviewed somebody recently who they, I mean, well actually they have almost daily individuals that are solving problems for themselves and then they, find a way to help others that have that same problem.
Right. Mm hmm. Basic, you know, fundamental of entrepreneur So talk to me about like the creation of the product, the skin tones, like, you know, all of what went into that. Yeah. So in short, the process is really intense. It was give us the real, want the real Camille. I was going to say, you went to school for launching a beauty products and you bear with us.
Scientist and this, this. No, I’m just joking. Of course not. It’s hard. First time on. You think I ever did a podcast before? Any of this? No. I didn’t know, right? Yeah, go ahead. I mean, I’ll pick on myself there. I didn’t know . Right? So, I mean, the process was intense, you know? Mm-Hmm. I didn’t, I just graduated, you know, I was 21 when I graduated college.
And I. Yeah, I hadn’t, I literally had no one to like look to. So the Blackstone launchpad at Temple, the incubator hub I was talking about earlier, you know, they helped me print out these really shitty business cards and they looked up like makeup conferences nearby. And the closest one was the first one I ever went to was, it was called Makeup in New York.
And they still have it. It’s pretty much a. Two to three day vendor but conference, so to speak, and a showing, and there’s different vendors there of labs. They have different labs, different chemists, different ingredient suppliers, and you just pretty much go there to network.
So, I would go there network with some people get their information and. Yeah, I just started Googling, like, what are the best cosmetic labs, like, on the internet. And I would call the places and just, you know, talk to them about my, my idea. And a lot of times I couldn’t afford them, you know, they were like our minimum order quantity, which is MOQ is 5, 000 units per shade.
Right? Well, I was just starting and so I wasn’t going to launch with 25, 20 to 30, 000 shades. Like, you know that’s just like ridiculous. And even someone like. Kylie Jenner, when she first launched Kylie cosmetics, she launched with 15, 000 units, like in total. that’s someone who had millions of followers.
And so they’re telling me, I need to be able to order 20 to 30, 000 units. I just couldn’t do that. And so I pretty much had to shop around. And so I, I finally landed on this one lab. It was a new lab. It was in Utah. I won’t name them. But. we started off the conversation, they let me know that they could definitely do what I was trying to do.
They told me the pricing. They said I could own the formula for X amount. And so now I was like, okay, I have to raise money because you have to pay these labs, right? And so yes, you do. I didn’t have any money. I was a broke college, like literally recent college grad. Blackstone Launchpad would look up pitch competitions Philly for me to attend.
And my first pitch competition, it was called the Idea Competition at the Fox School of Business at Temple. And I applied, I got in I reached out to a friend who’s now my co founder. But I reached out to him asking us, he could create a video for me. An animated video that explains exactly what we were doing.
And so he created this really awesome video and I pitched and I ended up winning their global initiative award for 500, which I was happy and ecstatic. Cause it was our first pitch competition ever. And I was, and it’s called the idea competition. So that was the validation I needed. To continue. What did that do for your confidence at that point?
That had to be like, I mean, that must’ve been the best 500 you’ve ever made in your life. Like that’s like, I was like, wow. to have my first pitch competition ever and win that award. I was like, wow. Okay. So this is legitimate. Like what I’m doing is for real. I need to keep going. And yeah, it was 500 bucks.
Like I didn’t have. the best laptop at the time. So I used that money to buy my first Apple computer. and that was super exciting. And so, so I started applying for more pitch competitions to get more money because 500 came and went. And six months later, or maybe it was like four months after winning that first award, I Was on a train to Boston and because we, we were semi finalists in, at the time it’s called Bill Clinton’s Hope Pitch Prize Competition for a million dollars.
And we were semi finalists, and so I paid for two of my friends at the time to come up to Boston with me and pitch. And we didn’t win, and it was really sad, but I learned a lot. And yeah, I just, for like a year, I just kept applying to pitch competitions, and the same thing would happen. I would, I would get in.
I would get to the final round and each time it’s like a goalpost was moving. It was like, oh, we gave it to this person because you don’t have a prototype. So then I found a prototype and then they, I would get in the pitch competition. I would get to the final round and I would sometimes see those same judges.
Thinking, okay, I’ve had growth since the last time they saw me. I have a prototype now and we still wouldn’t win. And the same judge would come up to us and be like, we didn’t pick you because you haven’t launched yet. And I’m like, well, I need money to launch. I don’t have money. Entrepreneur’s dilemma right there.
Go ahead. And so, and so I just became sick of it, to be honest, it started feeling like I was getting in and I started becoming. their token black person that they were going to show off of like, yeah, look how diverse we are because after the pitch competition would end, I would see that I would be in their marketing materials as a means to get other people to apply for the next year.
But they were never picking me. every pitch competition I was, I was going to, they were using my image and it just started feeling really shitty. And so. My partner and I, we weren’t getting anywhere and we’re like, you know what? We should just do a Kickstarter or Indiegogo campaign and raise money within our own community who gets it get money that way.
And so I started reaching out to people who I heard had successful Kickstarter Indiegogo campaigns and who were not successful with their campaign. So I can learn from them as well. And. I, you know, some people will charge me like 100 an hour to meet with them, which was again, still a lot of money for me as a like broke recent college grad.
And I would meet with them at lunch or I would treat them to lunch. Using my own money and just, I would have a notebook and I would just take all the feedback. And this took about six months. Like I, flew to Atlanta once to meet with the woman. I took her out to lunch cause she raised a good amount of money through Indiegogo.
And, and yeah, so after about, I would say like four or five months meeting with people very frequently and gathering data, I. Max out my credit card. It was like 1200 bucks to attend the Talia Wajid hair show. It’s like a big hair show in Atlanta. my thinking was, okay, it’s not cosmetics, it’s hair, but I know a lot of black and brown women are going to be there and I can gather emails.
So when we do finally launch our Indiegogo campaign it’ll help us get to our goal quicker. And so, again, maxed out my credit card, flew to Atlanta to do this trade show. Mind you, I’m working full time. So I did, I like took a day off of work, flew in and, you know, We bought slices of pound cake
And that was a way because we didn’t have product like everyone else there. Yeah. But we were like, okay, we need a way to draw people in food. Everyone loves food and I cake. Yeah, they do. That was smart. That was a great idea. I would’ve been there like, what’s this pound cake I want? Exactly. And they’re like, well, Adam
Yeah. And we walked away with, I think it was like 800 emails. Amazing. It was like teaching 600, 800 emails. Wow. Which is solid. So that was like April, May. And, you know, we kept just updating people on our Instagram and whatnot, you know, the feedback I had gotten from folks was you need to plan, if you want to be successful in your Indiegogo campaign, you need to plan at least half a year in advance.
And so, and so, yeah, I would just keep everyone updated. And then I think by like July, I ended up picking, okay, September 25th, we’re going to go live with this campaign. And it’s only going to be for 30 days to create that sense of urgency. We can have a launch party. You know, I had, I was working at a coworking space and I pitched to them to let me use their rooftop for an event.
And I, I reached out to local folks vendors. To get catering to get alcohol there. Just make it a big splash and set up laptops. We had giveaways and so, so yeah, September was around and we launched the campaign and figures the first day, the website. Crash. Of course. That has to happen.
I mean, I feel like that wouldn’t be a good story for this podcast if it was like, oh, and that, no, I’m just, of course that has that for all the, I’m making light obviously of it right now, but for all the other viewers out there, it’s like, oh my gosh, of course that happened. Cause that’s what, you know, that’s what happened.
And you pushed on though, right? Right. And I was on the floor just, I, I was so disappointed. And yeah, we reached out to our rep and he’s like, what is going on? You like knew we were going to be launching today. Like what is happening? And yeah, it sucked. However, we still, within that first week or the first like six days, we met 30 percent of our goal.
I think, the feedback I got and based on my research six months prior was that. The campaigns on Indiegogo or Kickstarter that are the most successful get 30 percent of their goal I think within like the first three to five days and so we were able to do that still Despite this debacle then yeah by the third week, we were just like We we had tapped into all of our resources.
You know, we went to the press, we had a big launch party. I’m emailing everybody that I had known at this point, but my network’s pretty small because at this point, cause I’m only, I think I was I had just turned 23, I just turned 23 like four days after we launched the campaign. So I’m 23, my network’s not that big.
we were even on the news and invited press. And at this point, I think, I think by the last day, we. Had raised a little over 50 percent of our goals. So I was just trying to tell myself, okay, well, I’m still proud of us. We still raise over 10, 000, 20, 000 was our goal, but you know, I was just justifying it in my head.
Like, you know, I was able to get this from everybody. And the hours are counting down. I was counting down, I refresh it. And, and all of a sudden it jumps from. A little over 10, 000 to over 20, 000. And I’m like, Like, what the And I like, call my partner and I’m like, Oh my god! Oh my gosh! And he’s like, he looks at me and !
And we just start screaming and we’re like, Well, how did this happen? Like, what happened? And we see this This guy this random guy, I think his name was Alan, that donated 10, 000, I’m like, what? And I put him in Google and I’m like, nothing’s really coming up, it’s just like this, this white man. That says he works in Silicon Valley.
And we’re like, what is going on? But we’re like freaking out because the hours we have like an hour or two hours before the campaign was going to close. And we, we did it. We met our goal, but we were like, who is this? Who is this guy? And so we then got an email shortly after this guy saying like, Hey guys, we’ve been watching your campaign.
I’m. An executive at QuickBooks and we’re doing this campaign right now where we’re We’ve been looking for successful like Indiegogo and Kickstarter campaigns to donate to help them get past their goal. And we’ve been watching you guys since you launched, and you guys got past a certain amount that, so we were able to Help you guys close it out and we wanna fly you to California and give you guys like like Apple computers.
And we were like, oh my gosh. Wow. Wow. It was wild. It was wild. And so then the news broke that we actually like surpassed our campaign. And of course that helped like. It’s like one of those things where like, you need people to believe in you when you’re not successful. And then when you are, like, that’s when the support comes.
So it’s like everyone was like, Oh, I need to get there, blah, blah, blah, even though they didn’t donate. That’s how it goes. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. But it made a big splash. it was easier, a little bit easier, I should say, to get more funding. So once we. Once we hit that goal, there was a another pitch competition at Temple where her name’s Lori Bush.
She was the former CEO at Rodman and Fields, and she graduated from Temple’s Hospital of Business. So every year, I believe or at least at the time, she was donating like 50, 000 to Temple. Temple’s entrepreneurial program. So she had a grant. And so when we pitched, we were like, Hey, we just raised over 20, 000 from our community.
And from that point we were awarded another 10, 000. So now I have 30, 000 and I’m like, okay, or a little over 30, 000 and this I could take to a lab. and yeah, we found our first lab 7, 500 for them to create everything for the R and D process, just the R and D process. And to own the formula. So, long story short, we worked with them for a year and it was terrible.
It was absolutely terrible. I don’t think they knew what they were doing. didn’t know what we were doing either because had we, had we known what we know today or even like 4 years ago? We would have never went with them because their expertise was more so in deodorant and body care and I think because they were a new lab, they were just hungry for business.
So they told us yeah We can create a liquid lipstick. They had never created a liquid lipstick before so It was disappointing. That’s that was 7, 500 just down the drain. And so what we did was We learned from our mistakes, and we found another lab. This time the lab was in Canada. And this time around, we were like, okay, let’s be smarter.
Let’s ask them for samples first before we go with them. They sent us samples of their liquid lipstick, and we were like, okay, these are good enough where we feel comfortable that they could create something for us, like completely custom. And we gave them what we currently had and so they worked off that formula they did a better job, but they were just still shady.
They were very shady. And you know, we were almost there, then COVID happened, March of 2020, and everything shut down, including the labs. And then, I don’t know, what people don’t discuss is like, everyone started, rightfully so, wanting to, you know, Be more I guess health conscious in the sense of or hygiene conscious, I should say.
And, and everyone was trying to make money off of hand sanitize, hand sanitizer. So our lab switched from, I guess, helping clients like us to they were like, we’re, focusing on creating hand sanitizer. We were like, okay, so where does this put us? Yeah. by the end of the summer, we got to a place where the formula was pretty good. And we were like, okay, so we sent our vials cause we were going to do production with them and I shipped everything to Canada. And I had just called to get a check in about something, and the owner of the lab was like, Hey, did anyone not tell you?
And I was like, Tell me what? And he was like, Yeah, we’re no longer going to be working with, with Poundcake. And I was like, What? What do you mean? Like, I, I just was taken aback because I wasn’t even called. I was just calling to see if they had gotten our vials yet. And they were just like, yeah, we, we have a bigger client coming in and we just, you know, we’re just changing the trajectory.
And we pleaded with them. We were like, can we at least get the formula? We’ve been working with you guys for a year. Can we please get the formula? He said, yes. The formula never came. And we kept bugging him and bugging him to the point where he did send something over. But it wasn’t. It was complete bullshit.
The numbers didn’t make sense, you know, in chemistry, everything has to equal a hundred percent. And the formula did not equal 100%. when did it work? Like, let’s get to that part. When did it finally work? Yeah, when did it work? Well, we went to two more labs. This is devastating.
This time we were like, hey, let’s be even smarter. Let’s work with two different labs at one time. Just in case something like this happens. And that’s what we did. And the one lab dropped us. But luckily because we had. We were working with two labs simultaneously. The other lab had gotten a lot closer to what we wanted and we were still able to own the formula, et cetera.
And so finally, yes, we found the place that Finally, I was about to say. A lot of people don’t know that. Yeah, it was, it was awesome. I mean, when I think about, cause a lot of entrepreneurs, I mean, just saying like when we have these ideas and it’s like, love that you broke down the story though, because what happens is sometimes in the middle of those, like you could have quit so many times you could have quit on the, after the first lab, after the second, I mean, at this point, COVID hit like all these things for you to finally get to where you’re at today with a product that, you know, people can purchase on the website and the, company up and running.
Like, that’s not an easy feat as you’re saying right now, especially, especially competing in that market and otherwise, and we’re trying to create. Something new and something that. serve an area or niche that’s not been served before. That’s not the way that you feel it should be.
So, I mean, really, I think it’s a great story. Like overall, I’m listening to this and I’m like, Oh my gosh. And one of the reasons I like sharing these stories and bringing them to my audience is just because you know, there’s some entrepreneurs out there that might be going through that right now, where they’re like, Oh man.
And it doesn’t have to be just in the beauty niche. It could be many other niches. Right. Yeah. They might be thinking like, Oh, you know, but hearing these stories I feel is so meaningful because it’s, it’s part of the journey and I feel like it’s what keeps us all going. It keeps me going every day here, you know?
But that being said, Camille, so we’re, we’re about out of time for this particular episode, but I do want, I do want to I want to give you the opportunity to leave a website, social media. Anything else that so that my audience can come and check out the products and check out the line? Yes, of course.
Thanks so much for having me. You can find us purchase our products at poundcake. com Or you can visit your local nearby ulta beauty store and check us out in person if you’re in new york, california, texas Boston. You can also check us out at Credo Beauty or credo beauty.com. And you can follow us on Instagram and Twitter at poundcake.
And on Tik TOK at pound cake official. Fantastic. And for everybody listening just so you know, we’ll put the links in the show notes so that you can, you know, pick up pick up some product, of course, we want to support our entrepreneurs out there. And also speaking of supporting our entrepreneurs out there, if this is your first time listening to mission matters and you, haven’t hit that subscribe button yet, and you need an invitation, a personal specialized invitation, this one’s just for you hit that subscribe button.
And if you’ve been listening to the show for a long time and you haven’t left the review yet, Hey, we sure would appreciate that review. We appreciate the give back there. And Camille, again, Thank you so much for coming on today and sharing that story. And I look forward to watching the continued success of Poundcake and to continue to follow your journey.
So again, thank you so much for sharing that with me and my audience. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.
