Adam Torres and Matt Cook discuss podcasting trends
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Show Notes:
Listen to the Mission Matters PodCon 2024 coverage. In this episode, Adam Torres interviews Matt Cook, Head of Mission Matters Agency and Host of Pull Hook Golf, explore podcasting trends and Mission Matters PodCon 2024.
Watch Full Interview:
About Matt Cook
MATTHEW COOK is a multi-faceted professional, with a
diverse background spanning various industries. As a former
professional golfer, he gained firsthand experience in the
competitive world of golf. Matthew then transitioned into the
realm of golf technology, where he excelled as an executive
and expert, leveraging his deep understanding of the sport.
Driven by an entrepreneurial spirit, Matthew ventured into
the business world, establishing his own ventures and suc-
cessfully navigating the challenges of building and growing a company. He has
since taken on the role of media executive, overseeing the podcast division at
Mission Matters as the Director of Agency. At Mission Matters, Matthew has built
a thriving podcast network, creating a platform for like-minded individuals to
share their knowledge and experiences. Within a short span, he has monetized
multiple podcasts, showcasing his strategic acumen and ability to foster suc-
cessful collaborations.
Recognized as a thought leader in the podcasting industry, Matthew hosts the
popular Pull Hook Golf podcast, where he dives deep into the world of golf and
provides valuable insights to his audience. Additionally, he is poised to launch
another exciting podcast show called Podcaster Spotlight, where he explores
the captivating stories and journeys of fellow podcast hosts.
Matthew’s profound belief in the power of podcasting led him to contribute a
compelling chapter titled “The Power of Podcasting” to this book. Drawing from
his vast experience and expertise, he explores how this transformative medium
can connect people, amplify voices and create impactful change. With his un-
wavering dedication, wealth of knowledge and passion for podcasting, Matthew
Cook continues to make a significant mark in the industry, inspiring others to
embrace the limitless possibilities of this dynamic medium.
Full Unedited Transcript
Let’s start with our, our first our first interview slash panelist, Matt Cooke. Come on.
So, yeah, Matt, I think has the hardest job at Mission Matters for the record. Yeah, I’m not gonna disagree in a moment. Ah, the first annual Yes. Podcast. This is actually just Matt’s birthday party. Honestly. I was like, he tells me every time your birthday party, come on. It’s, it’s the, the podcast agency. Matt puts a lot of, lot of work behind the scenes getting these episodes out.
So for just the, so just the amount of episodes that we produce on a weekly basis, and to get those out and to keep this streamlined, to keep it going. And, and Matt’s Matt’s attention to detail and his staying ahead of the curve on technology and continually pushing us as an organization to get better in podcasting and not to settle for the status quo.
So that’s Matt’s day to day. Matt, just to start, in his formal title, the head of the podcast agency. So he runs the podcast division and he’s also a host of Pull hook golf. So we’re going to talk about that too. So of course you can’t have a head of an HC. He was not a podcaster. And little fun fact about Matt.
Well, two little ones. So we’ve known each other since our twenties. So I think we met when we were like 10 years old, maybe? Pretty much. Something like that. Yeah. It’s been a couple, a couple of decades, we’ll say. Yeah. And two decades at least. And then Matt also gave me my first podcast mic. So it was a Yeti.
I think a blue, a blue Yeti mic. All right, Matt. So first thing first, and I don’t know this. Yeah. I don’t know the answer to this question, but how did you learn about, like, podcasting? Where’d all that start for you? I don’t know the answer to that either. I started listening to podcasts, and I’m like, Adam, you know what would be great?
If you created a podcast. He’s like, what’s that? I’m like, get a blue Yeti mic, just start talking into it. I think he’d be great. And sure enough. Yeah there’s more to that story, but I don’t, I don’t know, but I don’t have time. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So give a little bit about your background, like background and how you kind of got started.
Oh man, my background in media. I kind of started in sales to be honest with you. Like, golf background, played professional golf, as soon as I got injured and sponsorship money started drying up, all of a sudden, next thing you know, I’m like, hey, I think I’d be pretty good at sales. So I headed into sales for a digital marketing agency, and then from there I started really figuring out, wow, media is awesome.
I really enjoy it. And had a few other gigs here and there. I always kind of jumped around, always had kind of that entrepreneurial bug. Opened up and Adam will tell you this, that opened up a media company, a social media agency called L. A. Media. Real original, right? But I looked, I was like, that name’s available?
I’m like, fantastic. So created that, started doing social media for small businesses throughout L. A. And then from there, yeah, the rest is kind of history where I realized that podcasting was kind of that next kind of rise in terms of media. And I really wanted to find out why. Why is it that podcasting is so powerful and one thing that people don’t realize is like something like Joe Rogan He’s been doing it for 13 plus years.
So everybody just thinks he blew up out of the blue No, I mean fear factor. Yeah, I get it. So well that being said When it came to podcasting, and Adam Cosley was like, Hey, will you come build our podcast agency and build our podcast network? And I was like, you know what? It’s going to be a crap ton of work, but I’m in.
And so that’s how it all came together. Did I miss anything there? Yeah, just a little. So, podcast network in general, I didn’t even know what a podcast network was. So that was, Matt was, that, that’s the part. He’s giving me a little bit more credit there than I deserve. I didn’t even know what a podcast network was.
When when Matt told me, he’s like, yeah, so this is how a podcast network works. And I’m like, why haven’t we been doing that? I don’t think that was an exact conversation. I think that was a lot of convincing to get to that conversation. It was, but after you explained it and I understood it, I’m thinking like, why aren’t we doing that?
And then I think it was like, yeah, why aren’t we? And I’m like, okay, go figure that one out too, Matt. Yeah, that’s how a lot of our conversations go. As soon as I convinced Adam, he’s like, yeah, go figure it out. That’d be good. I’m like, perfect. Servant leadership. It’s fine. For that leadership panel coming up next.
Is that what it’s called? No, I made it up. Alright, so one of the things that I want to start out with, because this is what everybody’s talking about. So, AI. Is AI going to replace Podcasting, are jobs like me, is it going to replace me? I don’t know. But AI, talk to me. Yeah, let’s talk about AI, because it’s the hot topic, right?
It is the, it’s literally replacing jobs. And it’s replacing a lot of jobs out there, especially when it comes to writers. I’m sorry for, if anybody’s a writer out there, because it’s actually a pretty good writer at this point. However, with AI, you still need the human element to it because it’s advancing so fast.
And what’s really cool is it gives us the ability to do more. And from an agency perspective, we’re always taking a look at what is the latest AI? How can it help us? How can it help our hosts have a better quality product? And that’s a lot of what I’ve been working on over the past six months. It’s really figuring out, how can we utilize this to make everything better?
And the one way that I always kind of framework around AI, is sure, it can help more people get into podcasting, however, you’re never going to be, unless you are paying attention to it constantly, and putting in a ton of time around it, You’re not going to realize what the capabilities are unless you are somebody that is truly focused on it like we are.
And that’s where, I’ll tell you right now, there are some great advancements. Especially when it comes to audio quality. If you got crappy audio quality, let’s say somebody called in on their iPhone, and they’re just like, oh yeah, I’m on a podcast right now, this is great, and you’re like, wow. The audio is terrible.
Well, hey, I can You mean like my first 300 episodes? Pretty much, yeah. We used to sneak into the mic like this. We used to get very, very much ecstatic. And it was on a cell phone. It was on a cell phone. It was on a cell phone. Don’t even get me started. We can go down a rabbit hole with that. I used to yell at Adam.
All the time, Adam, what are you doing? You’re running a podcast. The audio sucks. Can we please make the audio better? People are listening to this crap. Let’s go. And so, the but AI, it makes crappy audio really good. Now, the interesting thing that most people aren’t gonna realize is that if you have really good audio, it makes it terrible.
Like, literally terrible. Makes you sound like a robot. So, there’s these nuances to it, right? That you still need the human element into it, but it gives us the ability to create really high quality, And to be able to do that we’re just, we’re really lucky right now that we are so focused around it because it is the future.
It is where like, we’re not afraid of it. We’re not like, oh my gosh, it’s going to replace us as an agency. It’s more so that we’re like, wow, these tools are fantastic. We can make things so much better. And there’s going to be more things that come down the pipeline because we’re testing out so much stuff right now.
And that’s one of the cool things with me having a podcast as well, and being a podcast host, is that I’m constantly messing around with this stuff. So, I’m always at the front lines of what it’s capable of, and then we’re even building out our own AI as well, and providing that with how we go about podcasting.
So it’s going to be customized, it’s going to be, Individual to the specific shows to mission matters in general, and I’m excited about where we’re going to take everything Utilizing AI as well, so it’s not something we’re afraid of that’s for sure So you mentioned your show talk to us about pull hook golf Oh, man, I am passionate about pull hook golf, but I started this thing about two and a half years ago with zero expectations I was like, you know what if I’m gonna build out a podcast network I probably need to know how to be a damn host And then on top of that, probably need to do all the editing and fixing audio and everything.
So I’m like, I’m not just going to trust the audio engineers anymore. I’m going to go in and actually do this myself and figure it out. Because Adam will tell you, that’s how everything has been built on the podcast network and agency side, because it’s Adam going, Hey, go figure it out. So I do, I am the person that will go figure everything out.
And I did. And so the one thing that I knew heading into this, I had a mentor. For a period of time that actually came from iHeartRadio, and sure enough, I was asking him a bunch of questions. He goes, Matt, the one big thing, and you’ll hear me talk about this quite a bit as we go through this conversation, is around consistency.
Consistency, and our original host, Jason, Ken, you know, Jose, like when we used to do the monthly meetings and everything, what did I always talk about? It was consistency, consistency, consistency. Because as I actually put my trust into that, I’ve been able to, over the two and a half years, never missed a single episode.
So it has come out every single Wednesday morning. And with that I’d say it’s a lot of work, because we record live on Tuesday nights. So it goes out, it streams live Tuesday night, and then Wednesday, all of a sudden it’s like, okay. Now, luckily I’m at a point now where I have a video editor and audio engineer myself, so I’m like, okay.
I no longer have to deal with this anymore. But that used to be the challenges and struggles with it, and always making sure that it was consistent in terms of the product that people were actually seeing. And now we just hit over 90, 000 listeners. So, and that’s with just word of mouth, and bringing out guests and everything, and it’s been, it’s been an absolute journey, but at the same time I think it’s made me really good at understanding what hosts go through and what our audio side goes through when all of a sudden you send over an episode, it’s like, oh shit, What are we doing here?
This audio, this poor ghast, he called in from a 1989 Motorola. This is going to be rough. Speaking of consistency, Dr. Kate, you’re back there, so I didn’t see you. Oh, Dr. Kate, you’re over a hundred. I knew you were back. You were a little over a hundred. She’s a little over a hundred. I’m over here. Were you in the original class, or you were very close?
Just after. Just after. You’re over a hundred. Yeah, that’s right. So, speaking of consistency, You had a little out of my view, so sorry about that. Okay. Way to go, Adam! Respect for over a hundred. It’s not easy. It’s not easy, and we’re going to have you up later, and we’re going to have Ken and a bunch of other people, so we’ll be able to get into that.
So, there’s some newer podcasters in the audience. There are. So, let’s take it to the basics. So, you’ve been talking all the fancy AI and, you know, all the other things. Imagine if that’s fun. The basics. Like, somebody brand new starting a show, what do they do? Man, start recording. That is the, I always tell every host, when they come on board, that your first 12 episodes are really fun and your host footy.
Like, you’re going to suck in the beginning. Unless you are just an incredible speaker. It took me, and I’m a, I’m a perfectionist by fault, and the attention to detail and stuff. And when I did my first, probably I would say first 25, 30 episodes, I was like, man, I suck. Like, this is terrible. And then people, like every once in a while, I get a message from a random person.
Be like, your show’s great. I love it. And I’m like, good for you because I hate it. And so, I mean, just expect that, especially if I know, especially people in the audience. Everybody loves to excel and be really, really good at what they do, right? You’re successful in other areas. Well, get used to Phalen once again, because this is the world where it takes a while to kind of build your cadence, to, like, to be able to, when you have a really crappy guest, that all they want to do is sell you on what they’re doing, and there will be the most amazing product in the world, you’d never believe it, and you’re like, alright, how about we turn the page here, and get over to some new topics.
And that’s where, like, as you become a host, I tell hosts all the time, that, listen, your show is only good as you are as a host. Because the guests, they’re gonna come and go. However, the audience is gonna be there for you. And don’t expect that if you bring on a big name that all of a sudden you’re gonna end up with all their people listening to your show.
That’s not how it works. But when you put in consistency and you focus on quality and you actually record episodes, that’s gonna be the key. So making sure when you get started to be consistent with just recording, recording, recording and record is. Much as humanly possible, because the more comfortable you get on the mic, and in speaking, even doing monologue.
Monologue is by far the hardest thing to do. So if you practice monologue episodes, all of a sudden you’re going to realize that when you’re hosting and asking questions, and you’re responding, That is where the magic is going to be, because you have practiced monologue style, and it’s a lot harder to just speak into a camera or into a screen without an audience, without people out there.
So, again, if I am at the very beginning of the podcast journey and I think back to my mistakes, it would just be record, end. Do a monologue episode and don’t be afraid of it. You never need to release it though. Like your first episode, I love those as trailers and everything, being able to talk about your show and what the audience can expect from your show.
But then, kind of back up and you can record just A couple, even like 5 10 minutes worth of just like a topic, a segment, that you’re like, oh, let me see if I can get through this smoothly, without sitting there and stumbling on your words and saying a bunch of ums and uhs, and you’ll hear me, I do the same thing, everybody does, it’s natural.
If you don’t drop in an people think you’re weird, so don’t do that, add that in if you need to. Awesome. So I, I’m gonna ask one more question to Matt and I’ll tee it up though and let you know some context behind it so you also have a little bit of education around it. And then I’ll open up to the audience for a couple minutes of questions.
So we’re, we’re doing pretty good. Oh, we’re doing an audience q and a. Come on. How we doing anything? I’m gonna hog the mic. No, am I get involved everybody? Absolutely. So, just a little bit about the network so you understand that piece of it too, because I’m going to ask Matt a question around monetization and, you know, making money from podcasts, So the way our podcast network works is that we, we sell advertising against the aggregate downloads of the shows.
So what that means is even small shows can have, you know, Pennies roll in. Now this is a new update, and this is, we’re just coming out of beta, so this part of the network is coming online, but it was the long term vision of it, and the idea is that, you know, as these shows grow over time, they’re going to be more profitable, so Chirag will allow us to keep on investing in them, and we can keep on growing them, and and over time, you know, these small amounts can become large, and that’s one of the other parts here, even though, just throwing this out there so everybody understands the demographic.
of our podcast hosts. Our podcast hosts are busy. They’re all, no, nobody’s a full time podcast host. I would argue, probably nobody on our network has time to be a podcast host, actually. But after me talking to them for a while, why they should, maybe they decided to give me a couple hours a month of their time to get some content out and to hopefully add to their legacy, and also their businesses.
Because they’re able to most of them are business owners, Executives, entrepreneurs. So that’s kind of the demographic, but everyone has a day job or a full time business other than myself. Well, I guess mission matters is my day job, right? Sure. I, we’re good there. And then, yeah, there you go. I’ll take that.
So Matt monetization now in the future of monetization, where do we go? Ooh, everybody wants to make money, right? Nobody wants to be sitting on the sidelines, seeing everybody else make money in podcasting. And that’s one of the cool areas of podcasting. It’s become a fantastic revenue generating tool for businesses, for individuals, and likewise, because not only do we see the corporate main sponsors who are ahead of the game that are all of a sudden dumping money into big time podcasts, but the word’s gotten out that conversion rates are extremely high on podcasts.
So you’re starting to see small and medium sized businesses start to invest into podcasting. And the monetization side, like Adam talked about, one of the cool things that we’re getting out of beta with it, which nobody knows until right now, I didn’t even know that we were going to be talking about it, but that’s pretty cool that you brought it up, is aggregating all the podcast network numbers in order to sell to advertisers.
and have advertisements go across. So even small podcasts are going to start creating some revenue around that. Now, all of a sudden you might ask, well, is that being split evenly? Absolutely not. It is going to go for how much your listeners are listening to those advertisements and how many listeners that you have.
So the bigger podcasts are going to get more of that. Bank, and then the smaller podcasts are going to get that little trickle for the moment until they build up their podcasts. Monetization is on, is on the rise. Forbes has written just a crap ton of articles about it, Wall Street Journal has written about it, and right now, most people don’t realize that we are still in the wild, wild west in terms of podcast monetization.
And there’s a lot of different models that are going to be coming, subscription based models even listeners being able to donate to podcasts. So these are all avenues. And it’s, there’s not just one set way right now with podcasts. So once again, we’re still at the very infancy, so it’s a great time to be a podcaster.
It is a great time to create a podcast. Awesome. All right.