Adam Torres and Vincent Bradley discuss Proper Wild.
Subscribe: iTunes / Spotify
Apply to be a guest on our podcast here
Show Notes:
Proper Wild is a clean, plant-based energy shot designed to maximize productivity. In this episode, Adam Torres and Vincent Bradley, CEO & Co-Founder at Proper Wild, explore the Proper Wild journey and how Vincent made the leap from tech to consumer packaged goods (CPG).
About Proper Wild
Proper Wild makes functional, plant-based supplements that deliver energy and focus with clean and transparent ingredients that actually work, without compromising your health! No artificial flavors or sweeteners, no B.S. Just natural tasting products that are great to take on the go, saving you lots of time when you need long-lasting energy and focus now!
Full Unedited Transcript
Hey, I’d like to welcome you to another episode of Mission Matters. My name is Adam Torres, and if you’d like to apply to be a guest in the show, just head on over to missionmatters. com and click on be our guest to apply. All right. So today’s guest is Vincent Bradley, and he is CEO and co founder over at Proper Wild.
Vincent, welcome to the show. Thank you, Adam. Excited to be here and had an opportunity to talk a little bit about proper wild today. All right, man. So excited to have you as well. And I guess just to get us kicked off here before we get into proper wild, I see your co founder here. Were you always an entrepreneur?
Was it in your blood or, or how’d you start? Yeah, I started building software companies initially mobile apps and iOS and then marketing sites for local businesses back in Michigan when I was 17. So caught the tech bug early on and then moved out to SS after college, was lucky enough to join a company that got acquired by Amazon and then started my own fintech company, which, we built and sold.
And over the course of five years and sold in 2017. So I’ve been pretty lucky. I think there’s a lot of luck involved in entrepreneurship to go along with all the blood, sweat and tears and pain. Yeah. Yeah, that’s, that’s kind of my, my quick background and then decided to jump into CPG and food because it was just a passion of mine so proper My kind of entry into that space and we’ve been at proper wild now for almost three and a half years four years almost now So we got we got a michigander here.
Come on. I’m from michigan, too. I love it. Like like Where’d you go? Where’d you go to school? I went to michigan. So go blue Oh, there you go. My mom went to michigan I actually i’m one of those weird people that I like both I mean, I went to michigan state, but my mom went to michigan So I was watching what’s in the big house and And like, had a great childhood at U of M and doing all those things.
So yeah, so I, I’m one of the rare people that like both and I don’t really, you know, Listen, I love everyone from Michigan. I love Michigan State. I love Michigan. Yep. Exactly. The only thing I probably don’t root for and don’t like is Ohio. So we’ll leave it at that. I figured that all good, all good. So from, I guess, going from the tech space to this, I mean, that, quite a change or am I off on that?
Like, like, how did that take place? Yeah, it was a big change for sure. In, in in the tech space, my, my bread and butter, like what I got excited about. Was interacting with customers and building great, like great world class user experiences. I kind of came from like the design product side. And I mean, the thing I love about tech is how quickly you can move, how quickly you can iterate.
how quickly you can fail and learn. And I think like applying a lot of those principles to CPG was, was exciting for me. Cause it’s, it’s CPG is historically like way slower, you know, retail first. Yeah. And so, I mean, when we started proper while, like one of our, our, Our initial principles was like, let’s try to validate this and test and move and bring our learnings from the tech space to physical CPG.
And so we launched online, we really focused on subscription, we iterated our product six times over the first year and a half, like we had to make improvements, we had to learn and I think that’s been really key to our success. I think like the other thing too was. There’s something really awesome about having a physical, like a physical product in the market.
You know, we’re, we’re in about 4, 000 stores today going towards 10, 000 by the end of Q2. And like, it’s exciting to be able to walk outside and see someone holding your product. Or see someone, you know, see your product in the store. So it was just like, I’ve had some success in tech and I wanted to, I wanted to try it as a different sector.
And I’ve been able to, you know, translate a lot of the things that. That made me successful building software towards CPG. And so definitely a lot of other challenges though, a lot of new things. Yeah, for sure. And I’ve seen quite a few tech entrepreneurs try to make that jump, or they just, you know, want that physical product or that other thing.
It’s kind of like the unknown, right? Like you don’t know until you try and you kind of want that feeling that you just mentioned of somebody holding your product and having a physical product. And I’ve seen. Many attempt that and kind of spin their wheels or like, you know, it just wasn’t the same, their, skills or their entrepreneurial experience didn’t translate into this space.
For you, I’m curious, like, what do you think, like, how do you think you were able to make that shift? What are some of the things that you think made this work for you? Where I feel like so many haven’t been able to make that jump because it’s different. Yeah, it’s very different. And I think it also depends on the product you’re doing.
So for sure, our, you know, proper while is a tiny plant based energy shot. We use no preservers, artificial sweeteners is essentially the most convenient, healthiest energy drink on the market. And it does lend itself. For subscription because it’s small, it’s, it’s a daily habit forming type product, the dietary supplement.
So it’s something that like, if someone likes, it’s something they’re going to subscribe to and the size of the product. So fulfillment costs and, know, acquisition, like the business model essentially works online, whereas if you’re selling. A bag of potato chips or a 12 ounce drink, and it’s just like, it’s not necessarily like a subscription.
You’re fighting for shelf space with everybody else then, right? Like you’re not building necessarily a habit, like the habit of like Fritos versus yours is like, you know, 50 years of programming or whatever. You’re fighting for that, right? and the business model also doesn’t really work for online.
And I think that that, that is like, when you say that you mean like shipping, you mean like costs, you mean like this period. Yeah. Yeah. Like when you take a minute, when you look at the full, like business model, like customer acquisition, let’s say your customer acquisition is 50 bucks and your fulfillment cost is 10 bucks.
You’re 60 bucks into it now. And then your, your cost of goods to make that product is 10 bucks. So you’re 70 into it. And then your first time order, you know, is like 50 bucks. Well, you’ve just lost 20. So that business doesn’t work. But if you get that person to buy now, 10 times over the next year. Now you’re breaking even on month two, you’re profitable in month three, you’re profitable.
So a lot of CPG products just are never going to work in or never going to work online, whereas our product does. And so we were able to build a profitable foundation online and then like, okay, let’s go figure out retail. If you’re trying to figure out retail for the first time. You have almost no shot.
That’s my experience. It’s taken us 3 years and we are just for all of the founders out there that are trying to figure it out for the 1st time. All their heads just slumped. It’s okay. It’s okay. Yeah, it’s a combination of everyone always has a retail is expensive. You don’t really understand what that means.
Until you’re doing your first retail deal and you look at like your margins are less than you thought they were going to be. And then you got to run promotions and then there’s chargebacks and then there’s plotting fees. And by the time you. Get through everything, but you’re losing money on your first two orders.
And you’re not making money until that third or fourth order. And then if your product doesn’t sell on retail, you’ve essentially lost money. So like retail is very difficult. Also think about it from this perspective, you walk into your average C store gas station, or, you know, CVS, there can be 20 to 40, 000 items in that store, excuse, and, and the people that are stocking those products in the store that work in that store.
They don’t care about your product. You are just another product to them. So like, it’s really easy for your product to not be forward facing. It’s really easy for your product to be out of stock. It’s really easy for your product to be put in the wrong spot in the store. You got a lot of, you got a lot of things to overcome.
And when you’re a startup. You don’t have, you know, Coke and Pepsi and Frito Lays and these big companies, Altria, they have loads of people going into the store, making sure all of their products are perfectly merchandised, perfectly placed, all even stocked. They have relationships, so they even know, like that same guy’s been stocking that, that, that Coke or whatever the thing is, or bag, you know, chips things the whole time.
They know, they probably know the people that are working there. Working in the store. So they actually do care about their product because they’ve built these relationships. Like it’s a long term, like it’s hard. I get what you’re saying. So for you being the new guy on the block, they don’t even know who you are.
So my, you know, not to sound too negative, but my advice is have someone on your team or in your network who understands retail and have a plan to attack it on day one. And understand if your business can actually work online, because if you put all your marbles in that we’re going to sell it online first and then flip to retail, that’s not a good strategy if you don’t have a clear understanding of like how your business works online basically has to have a really long tail.
You know, repurchase. So for originally even going into this, it sounds to me, or correct me if I’m off on this, you already kind of knew that the product wise, if you could, cause you said you, I think you said six or multiple reiterations of the actual product itself, the first year I’m guessing was that that was for formula, but I’m guessing, correct me if I’m wrong, but then the actual, like the product itself, you kind of knew going into it, that if you could, you Figure it out that the numbers would back out.
Am I off? Is anything that I’m saying incorrect? Yeah. Yeah, exactly And we knew that you know at this price point With this, you know repurchase rate of you know If we bring in 100 people They have 25 or 30 people become long term customers and they subscribe for 10 months and this is our fulfillment we built out What a successful business model look like, and then we pressure tested those assumptions against benchmarks.
And we’re like, yeah, this can work like this can work. There’s similar products in the market or similar styles of product that have these levels of repurchase, right? These levels of customer acquisition, you know, this level of average order value, like this type of lifetime customer value. And we were able to be like, okay, this can work.
And I think that that’s Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know if you can have a good plan and reduce the chaos and reduce the, just trying to wing it your plan can change on a day to day basis, but I think you got to have a plan. And so that’s, you know, that’s, that’s been our key. Like, like we fail a lot, we make a, we make a lot of mistakes, but we learn fast and then we come up with a new plan and then we implement and we learn and we test and then we, you know, like we have to pay, but we pivot again.
And I, started this company. Because I was drinking a ton of coffee, it was hurting my stomach, and I wanted something better, and as I went down the rabbit hole, I learned about matcha, and just the benefits of caffeine and L theanine, but I wanted something more convenient than having the, like, the matcha tea bags are not very good, and like, proper matcha is really time consuming.
And so I was like, man, I wish I just had, like, the organic caffeine from green tea, L theanine from green tea. Let’s put that in a bottle. Let’s use no preservatives, no artificial sweeteners, like, no poison in junk. Like, is it possible? And then could we make it taste good? And that, that was kind of the origin.
And we’ve identified a big opportunity in the market because it’s a, it’s a functionally, like, the best. You feel amazing when you take part for a while and it’s so convenient. So now our challenge is just about getting it everywhere and making sure everyone knows about it, which is, which is challenging, you know, we’re competing with a lot of big companies.
Of course, of course. And, and, and you’re a product guy. So when you were going into the you know, the original formulation and reiterating this thing, like what, what did that process look like? Cause that’s, that’s a little different too. It’s really, it’s really hard with food because for me, it was like, I want something that I feel good about putting into my body every day, which means no preservatives, no artificial sweeteners.
So now when you remove preservatives, now you have a shelf life issue. Because retailers and distributors don’t want to buy products that only have, you know, or if they need to be refrigerated, they have two weeks, you just narrow the window of who you can do business with. You can’t sell it on Amazon.
Like, I can’t work direct to consumer because it’s refrigeration. Your fulfillment cost was like 25 just for the pot. so for me, it was like, okay, I want something that I feel good about putting into my body. So we identified hot fill. If you hot fill, you pasteurize the product and you don’t have to use preservatives.
Artificial sweeteners we removed. So now we’re using like organic juices and we’re using pink Himalayan sea salt and things to help balance the flavor of the caffeine, which is very bitter. And all of these were challenges, but it was really important to me, Adam, that it was a product that I personally felt good about putting into my body.
That functionally worked and yeah, it took like, it took a lot of iterations and it took a lot of testing and like a lot of experimentation to make all those things come together. And then I think the biggest challenge too, when you’re ever developing products, it’s really easy to lose sight of the customer because you keep making these decisions based on the consequences of, of just the reality.
Right. Like we, we didn’t want to use preservatives, so we had fail. Okay. But now the hotfield process removes the ability to use anything like Rodeola root or ginseng or the mushrooms on the market. Because there’s pH consequences and then, or another example would be like, you don’t want to use artificial sweeteners, but now the product tastes worse.
So like, yeah, it’s healthier for you, but do customers want a product that tastes like this? So it’s like, it’s sometimes, you know, this old famous Steve Jobs quote is like, start with the customer experience and then reverse engineer. I think that was something that we. On iteration 1, we created the perfect product that no one wanted, that no one wanted, if that makes sense.
And in iteration 2, we were like, okay, we went too far on the health side. We need to make it taste better. And then, you know, we kept iterating and tinkering, and like, we reduced the caffeine, and we increased this, and we changed this, and we got to a point where we’re like, okay, a lot of people like this, and it’s still very healthy.
And. We think we have a mass market product. So that was, I think food is food is very challenging because of shelf life and cost. And there’s a lot of there’s a lot of things that box you in for making, you know, decisions that you want to make, but, but we, we, we were able to navigate and I’m pretty happy with, you know, our product at the moment.
What was the signal for you or the sign where you’re like, okay, yeah, bingo, we’re on the right formula. Like, what was that sign for you? Our North Star metric is repurchase rate. Like, we just think that repurchase rate is key for food and beverage. If people who try your product are willing to rebuy it again, you know, that’s the key.
And , you can have a lower repurchase rate if you have a very long tail on your lifetime customer value. So like, If less people are willing to rebuy, but those people are, are absolute diehard repurchasers, like they’re going to be with you for years, then you can have a little bit lower repurchase.
What we’ve found is we have a pretty healthy repurchase rate. When you look at like, you know, benchmarks of other people and, you know, we’re between 20 and 40%, depending on like the market and the demographic. And then we have a very strong tail as well. So, you know, a lot of people seem to like the product and then a lot of people really liked the product.
And I think that that’s You know, repurchase rate for us is like, cause there’s so many KPIs and there’s so many data points you can look at, but you got to simplify it and just pick one to really focus on. And that for us captures like the health of the business. You know, if we, we have a healthy repurchase rate, we know the product’s good and we know we can make that work.
And so now that you’re coupling this, so you did this online and now by coupling this with retail, like, like in a perfect world, right? The person that is, you know, purchasing it online has some at home. Now they go into the gas station or wherever else, and they see it on the shelf and they’re like, Oh yeah, I could use one of these.
And now you’re winning on both ends because they kind of, they’ve already kind of, maybe, maybe they left it at home or they don’t have one. Oh my gosh, here we go. So now that, that becomes interesting, right? That, that’s the key. And if it’s like, if we start to go into more retail we’re building lots of momentum.
And the other thing too, Adam, is there’s a lot of people that probably see our ads or see our product online. And a lot of people just don’t want to buy food and beverage online. It’s like, not the first time, not the first time. I’m kind of that way. Like I want to try it and I’m like, Oh, this is good. All right.
Let’s see if I can, you know, buy it in bulk or something else. Yeah. For sure. Yes, exactly. And so having just the ability. It’s a commitment to buy a whole box of something that you don’t know if you’d like. Agreed. You agreed. And it’s, you know, like our, boxes you know, first time promotion discount, we’re still 18 bucks and just being able to grab a shot at a gas station for, you know, 3.
99 or 3. 49 and it’s a very low commitment. And then if you love it. It’s a way easier entry into the product. So that’s that’s why retail is still very, very, very, very important for us. And probably at maturity, you know, when you look at a similar formatted product, like us, 5 hour energy, you know, they’re doing almost a billion dollars a year still.
It’s a pretty big market opportunity. So, yeah, one story on that one for sure. For sure. and I feel like, and correct me if I’m wrong, but like , that whole niche for this, I feel like after five hour energy, when I go, when I’m walking to a gas station or something else, just based off of packaging, based off other things, like they went far into the energy drink.
And I don’t mean five hour energy. I just mean that. That sector. And I’m just thinking about gas stations when I walk in and I see what’s on there. I feel like they, a lot of the products went the route of like an energy drink almost, and with their branding, everything else, ton of caffeine, who knows what’s in it to the point where I wouldn’t even, I don’t even want to pick up one of those things.
I’m like, I don’t know what that thing is. It’s going to make me feel pretty, not probably the best for long term use. But this, when I think about your packaging, when I think what you’re doing, like you’re bringing some, clarity to the space and some health side to the space to where, you know, there’s, there’s room on the shelf for that.
Like versus the other side where there’s so much energy stuff, where it’s just like energy, whatever they could pump some caffeine into a bottle and, and sell it, put it on the shelf. Like, boom, there’s 50 of them. Yeah, exactly. And, the thing I like to tell people is like, most of those products you’re talking about, Have an ingredient called potassium sorbate in it, which is a preservative and it’s an FDA approved preservative.
It’s actually generally recommended it’s safe known as grass by the FDA and potassium sorbate is a poison, which I always, crack up at. It’s an actual poison and it’s a poison that kills bacteria and it kills fungus and it kills everything in that drink for sometimes multiple years, but the FDA has decided, you know what?
At a small enough dose, it’s okay for a human being to consume it. It’s, you know, it’s, it’s not good for you. I think every, I think every food scientist, nutritionist, doctor would, would say, you know what? Probably better not to put that in your body. But if you’re not going to hurt you, it’s probably, yeah, it’s probably safe.
You know, it might kill some, you know, some microbes in your gut, I just don’t subscribe to that when I’m, you know, I tell people when you go, when you go to Whole Foods. And you see the guacamole section. Turn that ingredient thing around and if it says citric acid, put it back. Look for the guacamole that uses, you know, organic lemon juice.
They just squeezed into it. Because the citric acid one, they put citric acid in there and they probably put it in off site and it probably has citric acid in it. You know, a six week shelf life. Now, guacamole shouldn’t have a six week shelf life. Guacamole should have, you know, like a 12 hour shelf life, like grab the one that doesn’t have citric acid when you’re buying eggs, like understand what the different things mean.
You know, free range means that chicken had like between one and two feet of square footage. Like that’s disgusting. By the pasteurized raised eggs, which is, you know, chickens have to have at least a hundred square feet. Bye. Really understand what you’re putting in your body because it’s you know, these energy drinks.
I mean, I think it’s terrific. I think that the most of the ingredients in them are poison. And so that’s, that’s why we’re excited about proper while, like, we’re giving people a healthier, better option. We keep it really simple. It’s, it’s not complicated. It’s green tea from, it’s caffeine from green tea and L theanine from green tea, and then a bunch of organic and natural juices.
And that’s it. Yeah. Like, doesn’t get any simpler than that. Great. Well, Vincent first off, this has been a great discussion. I, now I’ll even know how to buy my guacamole better. So thank you for that. Stay away from fish with acid, Adam. I’m in man. I’m like, oh my gosh. Now I got some more things to think about.
why do I do this show? No. Oh, if somebody wants to learn more about proper wild follow the journey connect, how do they do that? So go to properwild. com and you can, you can check out our site. We are launching gummies very soon, a new format coming out. So that’s, you know, if you sign up for our email, you’ll get, you’ll get notified about that.
We’ve, we’ve developed, I think like the best functional tasting energy focused productivity gummy on the market, which is exciting, but go to properwild. com. If you, if you chat us up on the site we’ll toss you a discount on your first order as well. And that’s, you know, excited for people to try the product.
And I hope everyone loves it. Amazing. And we’ll put, we’ll put the links in the show notes so that our audience could go, can go pick up some product and speak into the audience. If this is your first time with Mission Matters this is a daily show each and every day. We’re bringing you new founders, new entrepreneurs, new executives, new insights hit that subscribe button.
Don’t want you to miss any of the upcoming content. And we’ll also, as I mentioned before, have those links to a proper wild in the show notes. You can click on the link and just head right on over and check out the site. And Vincent, thanks so much again for coming on the show. It’s been a pleasure and thank you for sharing your story.
I appreciate the opportunity, Adam. Cheers.
